so my dad owns a 1987 porsche carrera that at stock with new axel and a redone engine runs 205hp and weighs 2400 pounds curb weight.it has proformance tires on it. my friend who owns a 2008 BMWm3 thinks he can demolish my dads porsche in a circular track race. who is right?
are you joking the m3 weighs 3500 pounds curb weight and the porsche has a tighter suspension for faster corners….i say it would be close at the strait away but bmw would be ahead by a bit but back to the corners the porsche would dominate it
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The M3 is like an F5 Tornado, it takes anything in its path.
Porsche definitely… no doubt!!!! Porsches are made to be race cars!
You mean an oval? The BMW. The M3′s 4.0 V8 puts out over 400 horsepower.
Sorry to be the bearer of bad news: The M3 would enjoy a massive advantage over the older Porsche. A Stock 3.2L Carrera is about the same or slightly faster than an E36 M3, and the M3s since then are much faster than that. And I think you are underestimating how much the Porsche weighs (should be closer to 2800 pounds for a 3.2L Coupe with the G50… more for a Targa or Cabriolet – I race in older 911s and regularly instruct for PCA and am very familar with the 3.2s)… but regardless, it wouldn’t be close.
Given a good enough driver, on a road course like Laguna Seca, the Porsche on street tires could be capable of nudging under 2:00 per lap. The newer M3 would be ~15 seconds a lap quicker (it’d lap the Porsche even in a 20 lap sprint race with ease)… ,maybe even a little more. Even in the corners, the M3 will be better – while heavier, the suspension is 20+ years newer, and not based on what was a compromised design that originates in 1963 (as does the basic torsion bar design of the ’87 911).
Around an oval, it would be even bleaker, because the one advantage the Porsche would have on the M3 would be related to the lighter weight. Taking transient handling and braking out of the equation (both of which would be highly effected by the M3′s greater weight), the M3 would run away.
On a road course, the Porsche could compete with the stock M3 under the following conditions: moving up to 7″ and 9″ lightweight race rims, front brake ducts, adjustable anti-roll bars and dampers that are at least as stiff as the optional sports package of that era, and Hoosiers or similar R-comp tires; early 911 headers and something similar to the early factory sports exhaust would help the engine breath better, and a brake bias valve to put more to the rear (and an LSD if the car is not already so equipped). And then just get a couple hundred pounds of weight off the car! This would help the 911 regain what it would be losing in the corners, and regain it’s straightline losses under braking (especially as the laps added up). That would make it close… at least until the M3 put on sticky tires and again ran away into the distance.
And around an oval, given the difference in top speed between the two cars, there wouldn’t be anything short of an engine swap and change of gearing you could do to the older Porsche to get it on pace with the newer M3.
The only likely scenario where the Porsche is faster is if the skill levels of the drivers are vastly different… a fast, skilled driver in the Porsche would easily lap faster than a novice in the BMW (then again, a skilled driver in an old Miata will lap faster than a novice in a race prepped Ferrari).
Depends who is driving
The M3 would kick it’s booty in the track.
Good answers here; I’ll just put more precise numbers to those. The 2008 V8 BMW M3 actually weighs over 3700 lbs and has 414 HP.
The OLD 1987 Porsche 911′s single advantage would be in the turns. The BMW’s heavy, upright V8 engine pushes its center of gravity way up in the air relative to the Porsche with its flat 6 cylinder engine.
Clearly, over 20 years of technological development gives the BMW a vast advantage.
Change the scenario: put that new M3 up against a new Carrera (3.6 L) with 340 HP and a curb weight of around 3100 lb and the heavy and top-heavy BMW is in trouble. Against the Carrera S, with the larger 3.8 L engine and 385 HP, the BMW fares even more poorly. We’re not even going to talk about the Porsche Turbo family, which includes 3.6 litre six cylinder engines with as much as 530 HP.
Added:
I decided to search for the 1987 Porsche’s specs:
2600 lbs and 214 HP (12.15 lb/HP vs 8.94 lb/HP for the M3)
2009 Carrera S: 8.05 lb/HP. Here, less is more !
Tell your friend that he’s correct. The M3 has 414hp – keep the revs up and that engine sings. I love Porsche and in 1987 it could take on almost any car of that era, but in 1987 a 414hp 3 series BMW didn’t exist.
I delivered an M3 a couple months ago and I took it for a drive around the block. Yes, it’s definitely a fast car and I didn’t get it into the higher revs. I heard the red line is around 8900 – for a V-8 that’s impressive.
One final observation: 1987 Porsche 911′s have a heavy weight bias in the rear (the engine is hanging out behind the axle). Because of this, you need a skilled driver to get around the track fast. The M3 is a much easier car to drive and is much more forgiving. If you have equally skilled drivers in each car, the M3 will be pretty far ahead of the older 911.
Sorry to burst your bubble, but these are the facts. I would venture to say that a 335 will beat the old 911.
If both were brand new, Porsche would win.
But with a 1987 Porsche against a new M3, the M3 would easily win with its 416HP. Sorry.
BMW, but if was a 09 porsche TWIN TURBO vs 09 BMW M6.
Porsche would win
Apple now has Rhapsody as an app, which is a great start, but it is currently hampered by the inability to store locally on your iPod, and has a dismal 64kbps bit rate. If this changes, then it will somewhat negate this advantage for the Zune, but the 10 songs per month will still be a big plus in Zune Pass’ favor.
Zune and iPod: Most people compare the Zune to the Touch, but after seeing how slim and surprisingly small and light it is, I consider it to be a rather unique hybrid that combines qualities of both the Touch and the Nano. It’s very colorful and lovely OLED screen is slightly smaller than the touch screen, but the player itself feels quite a bit smaller and lighter. It weighs about 2/3 as much, and is noticeably smaller in width and height, while being just a hair thicker.
Zune and iPod: Most people compare the Zune to the Touch, but after seeing how slim and surprisingly small and light it is, I consider it to be a rather unique hybrid that combines qualities of both the Touch and the Nano. It’s very colorful and lovely OLED screen is slightly smaller than the touch screen, but the player itself feels quite a bit smaller and lighter. It weighs about 2/3 as much, and is noticeably smaller in width and height, while being just a hair thicker.
Sorry for the huge review, but I’m really loving the new Zune, and hope this, as well as the excellent reviews some other people have written, will help you decide if it’s the right choice for you.